05/01/2005 - 10:28 GMT IRC Meeting on #sgl-shop

(12:28:22) Rolandas [i=user@] entered the room.
(12:28:26) rares_: here we are
(12:28:29) wmk: fine
(12:28:35) Rolandas: hi
(12:28:39) rares_: the holly triad 
(12:28:40) rares_: :)
(12:28:48) wmk: so what are your plans regarding shop..?
(12:29:09) Rolandas: hm
(12:29:12) rares_: wmk: who are you asking?
(12:29:31) wmk: both...
(12:29:34) rares_: wmk: LOL
(12:29:35) Rolandas: ok, i can start
(12:29:40) rares_: Rolandas: you first :)
(12:29:58) Rolandas: i have export/import with picture uploading working, improoved search
(12:30:06) Rolandas: eee..
(12:30:09) Rolandas: and smt more...
(12:30:16) wmk: sounds good. is for "shop" module
(12:30:24) Rolandas: product versioning semi working :)
(12:30:36) wmk: ?? what's that about?
(12:30:48) Rolandas: about what?
(12:30:53) wmk: product versioning
(12:31:09) Rolandas: http://svn.baltmedija.lt/index.php/shop/action/details/pid/21
(12:31:29) Rolandas: some products can have versions 
(12:31:30) wmk: You do not have the required perms to perform this action
(12:31:35) Rolandas: oops
(12:31:38) wmk: you mean different colors for a t-shirt?
(12:31:40) rares_: wmk: you have a product T-Shirt and you want to offer version Red T-Shirt, 
(12:31:43) rares_: wmk: yes
(12:31:44) Rolandas: yes.
(12:31:44) rares_: :)
(12:31:47) wmk: ah.
(12:31:49) Rolandas: ok, login as admin/admin
(12:31:57) Rolandas: then try that link.
(12:33:04) wmk: in your example the canon and the brother are different "versions" of the product?
(12:33:06) Rolandas: versioning control accessible from product edit menu...
(12:33:09) Rolandas: yes
(12:33:31) Rolandas: lets say it is the same product
(12:33:37) Rolandas: just diff versions.
(12:34:58) wmk: hmm.. don't see versoning for a product in the product-edit menu... i see three different products
(12:35:37) Rolandas: well yes, at the moment.
(12:35:41) Rolandas: ???
(12:36:05) Rolandas: you should find printer office jet
(12:36:07) rares_: Rolandas: maybe just say that a product is a version (a child of a parent product) and only the fields that are not empty will modify the field of the parent product 
(12:36:10) wmk: ah. - product variant...
(12:36:27) Rolandas: adn click on edit
(12:36:38) wmk: like "different product if you're interested in this kind of product."
(12:36:40) Rolandas: yesl like rares said
(12:36:55) wmk: but for t-shirt it would be better to add other parameters, like size, color...
(12:37:06) Rolandas: it can be done that i could not be seen in productadmin listing...
(12:37:12) wmk: so the product numer will be generated out of "type"-"size"-"color"
(12:37:19) Rolandas: maybe yes.
(12:37:27) rares_: wmk: other version != related products
(12:38:13) wmk: but if i have to input each t-shirt size/color seperately it doesn't make sense to me
(12:38:30) Rolandas: i think i'll add version_description field for short mentioning whats the difference between versions.
(12:38:45) rares_: do we have a time table? wmk,rolandas: are there some futures that you need to finish until a certain date? 
(12:38:52) wmk: docu is always good...
(12:38:55) Rolandas: well, you have to input them somehow... :)
(12:39:15) Rolandas: regarding this versioning, i need lets say 2 days to finish it...
(12:39:23) wmk: rares_: how hardcoded are fields like "product nr" etc?
(12:39:38) rares_: wmk: they are not, change only the template
(12:39:42) wmk: for just displaying a bunch of products i need different fields...
(12:40:05) Rolandas: then you need to 1) add these fields to db
(12:40:07) rares_: wmk: and in validate product if you want to enter validation rules for that field 
(12:40:07) wmk: how about making this more configurable?
(12:40:13) Rolandas: 2) modify all SELECTS :)
(12:40:19) wmk: uh oh...
(12:40:21) Rolandas: and validate tooo.
(12:40:36) Rolandas: so i think we need DA badly.
(12:40:42) wmk: yes.
(12:40:50) Rolandas: then we coud modify only les say getProductData
(12:41:02) wmk: i also thought of making product description a publisher item, so we can rely on a lot of functionality there
(12:41:03) rares_: I agree
(12:41:05) Rolandas: function and not everything...
(12:41:37) rares_: wmk: I'm not 100% convinced about publisher
(12:41:41) wmk: Rolandas: aj will refactor item stuff in first quarter of 2006
(12:41:50) Rolandas: might be difficult to merge somehow shop+publisher...
(12:41:52) rares_: wmk: for me it's something very big and ugly 
(12:42:08) wmk: not merge, just use its functionality
(12:42:16) Rolandas: why not to use description field 
(12:42:16) rares_: wmk: what functionality do you want to achieve with publisher?
(12:42:37) wmk: more flexible product descritption
(12:42:39) Rolandas: you can write everything you need here. 
(12:42:50) wmk: less redundant work
(12:42:56) rares_: wmk: I must agree with Rolandas here
(12:43:10) Rolandas: then you wont be able to use product data export/import....
(12:43:31) Rolandas: export/import is powerfull feature, 
(12:43:56) Rolandas: for egz you can get prices from accounting system 
(12:43:56) rares_: Rolandas: how do you export/import images?
(12:44:01) wmk: you could be able, too... just use a publisher method to save/read to db
(12:44:11) Rolandas: put them to /upload dir
(12:44:18) Rolandas: in /www/upload
(12:44:32) Rolandas: assign filenames in img field or cod1
(12:44:43) rares_: I thing that once we have a DA_ we can integrate easily with other modules
(12:44:57) Rolandas: then they are bing copied, resized, thumbnailed...
(12:45:01) Rolandas: yes.
(12:45:03) rares_: Rolandas: IC and you do the resizeint thing too?
(12:45:07) wmk: ah...
(12:45:12) rares_: Rolandas: interesting
(12:45:23) rares_: Rolandas: how do you overcome the 30sec php timeout 
(12:45:24) rares_: ?
(12:45:25) wmk: yes, import/export would be great. could test it at my recent project ;)
(12:45:40) Rolandas: i have jast server :P
(12:45:43) Rolandas: fast
(12:45:48) Rolandas: lol
(12:45:56) wmk: we could use cli for import/export too.
(12:46:06) wmk: we don't need to do it via web frontend
(12:46:14) Rolandas: there is some php function for extending this timeout
(12:46:51) rares_: Rolandas: I made a thing for a project that divided the work into segments and used javascript reloads to jump form one segment to another (ex: 10 imgs at a time)
(12:47:05) rares_: wmk: yes would like that
(12:47:19) rares_: wmk: I didn't try SGL from CLI for the moment
(12:47:46) rares_: wmk: but, for example, I have ssh access only to one server, the other is web + ftp only
(12:48:01) Rolandas: i had imported 600 products with images without problems...
(12:48:37) rares_: Rolandas: at webcomputes.ro I had to limit CSV import to 500 products at a time
(12:48:58) Rolandas: you coud use set_time_limit
(12:49:03) Rolandas: ti increase it.
(12:49:05) rares_: ok, so let's agree on something 
(12:49:06) Rolandas: to
(12:49:42) rares_: the fact is that in this month I have to finish 4 portal sites that I postpone from last year 
(12:50:02) rares_: so work to the shop will be extra hours only
(12:50:19) wmk: ;)
(12:50:32) rares_: I think that you first need to see what are your needs for your clients
(12:50:33) Rolandas: i am more or les free for next 2-3 days...
(12:50:33) wmk: we should write down the ideas in RFC page
(12:50:54) wmk: i'm off for the weekend ;)
(12:51:05) wmk: Rolandas: do you need the files i modified yesterday?
(12:51:09) rares_: and yes, make a road map with your features as a priority
(12:51:22) Rolandas: wmk: maybe yes...
(12:51:30) wmk: your email?
(12:51:43) Rolandas: could you send them to rolandas@baltmedija.lt
(12:52:09) rares_: the thing is that I wanted to make a review of the other php carts on the market and see what they have better and worst 
(12:52:20) rares_: and make ours better than the others :)
(12:52:21) Rolandas: i had done this some time ago.
(12:52:26) rares_: Rolandas: and?
(12:52:39) Rolandas: let's say our shop is quite powerfull but buggy :)
(12:53:05) rares_: Rolandas: I don't trust the code 100% too 
(12:53:20) Rolandas: only big commercial projects are worth seeng
(12:53:28) Rolandas: mamno shop phpshop
(12:53:34) rares_: but now with the Unit Testing available we should develop with that in mind 
(12:53:36) Rolandas: offers similar things...
(12:54:24) wmk: there are many ways of developing. afaik looking how core sgl works and using good patterns for some problems will ease maintaining sooner or later.
(12:54:33) Rolandas: you can check this site for live CMS/ecomerce comparisons... http://www.opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=300&Itemid=159
(12:54:54) wmk: how about adding a "shop item strategy" that manages validation, form output...
(12:55:03) Rolandas: but you wouldnt find anything special...
(12:55:22) Rolandas: i had exported validator as a separate class.
(12:55:34) Rolandas: would be easyer to modify it in future.
(12:55:42) wmk: sure.
(12:56:01) wmk: or creating a "shop item" object that validates its input self...
(12:56:08) Rolandas: yes.
(12:56:22) wmk: so i just have to define another shop item class, exdending the basic one for adding stuff
(12:56:40) Rolandas: yes, that would be good 
(12:56:56) Rolandas: i suggest to set DA as a first priority
(12:57:05) Rolandas: maybe not to make it 
(12:57:09) rares_: what about this:
(12:57:14) Rolandas: but at least lets think about it...
(12:57:25) Rolandas: to define the structure of the classes.
(12:57:26) rares_: let write down our idea here: http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/RFC/Modules/Shop
(12:57:59) Rolandas: Product Categories: still romanian text hardcoded in Template (Kategorijo apra?ymai: 11-20 i? 34 ) LOL
(12:58:05) Rolandas: thats lithuanian :D
(12:58:15) rares_: wmk: should we make a subpage ...Shop/development or something like a blackboard for us
(12:58:45) Rolandas: would be god imho...
(12:59:27) rares_: so we write down our onw ideas, we discuss them, make a road map (the features that you need for your clients a priority) and divide the work so we don't overlap
(12:59:45) wmk: Rolandas: i neither speak romanian nor lithuian... at least it's hard coded ;)
(12:59:47) rares_: new changes go in svn
(12:59:55) rares_: wmk: 
(12:59:58) rares_: wmk: LOL
(13:00:18) wmk: one BIG pro for using publisher: you have integrated translation2 support out of the box
(13:01:02) wmk: Rolandas: if you normalise the db tables you can modify the structure of the products without changing db structure.
(13:01:50) Rolandas: actually the thing i don't like about publisher its interface. sucks if compared with mambo...  had complaints from clients...:-(
(13:01:50) wmk: i mean one db-table for basic pruduct data (which is not inteded to change), and one db table for additional stuff (like product_id, item, value)
(13:02:10) wmk: Rolandas: sure. it will change and is not useable now.
(13:02:30) wmk: and we don't need to use the interface but the technic it provides
(13:02:58) Rolandas: after normalizing usually new tables appears. and thats means things are geting more complicated (SELECT'S) and more slow...
(13:03:14) wmk: Rolandas: have you seen juliens improvement of backoffice gui?
(13:03:20) Rolandas: no
(13:03:33) wmk: http://sgl05.espace-web.fr/index.php/publisher/article/action/list/
(13:03:36) wmk: user seagull/seagull
(13:04:19) wmk: hmm.. little bit broken atm
(13:04:28) Rolandas: nice
(13:05:00) wmk: so if we combine those two powerful modules we save work...
(13:05:07) wmk: but it's not ready to combine yet :(
(13:05:41) rares_: here it is: http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/RFC/Modules/Shop/blackboard
(13:05:47) rares_: can you bookmark it ?
(13:06:08) Rolandas: but thats basically new css/html
(13:06:17) Rolandas: hm
(13:06:29) Rolandas: he could introduce js calendar for dates...
(13:06:36) Rolandas: would be more nice...
(13:06:40) wmk: Rolandas: sure. some js functionality.
(13:07:02) Rolandas: but interface is sure better 
(13:08:35) Rolandas: i suggest storing module configs in /var/ and to make them editable with editors like main config...
(13:08:45) Rolandas: but thats not shop thing...
(13:08:55) Rolandas: i'll write that to ML...
(13:09:01) wmk: you can also make module/conf.ini editable...
(13:09:37) Rolandas: yes, but then problems to make it writable for every module...
(13:10:02) wmk: you mean configurable with web-gui?
(13:10:06) rares_: Rolandas: yes and no
(13:10:34) rares_: Rolandas: I think that part of the config should go to DB because maybe you want to have different module configs to different sites
(13:10:38) wmk: guys, have to go to lunch now. cu l8r
(13:10:43) rares_: wmk: cu
(13:10:48) Rolandas: no to set it system writable on Linux systems
(13:10:51) Rolandas: on all modules.
(13:10:57) rares_: wmk: please put your tought to the http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/RFC/Modules/Shop/blackboard
(13:11:33) Rolandas: var\ is system writable
(13:11:53) Rolandas: hm, my few coments disapeared...
(13:12:00) wmk: rares_: yes. maybe put this conversation online there, too for a first version of the blackboard.
(13:12:13) rares_: wmk: good ideea
(13:12:23) wmk: Rolandas: wiki comments were not imported
(13:13:29) Rolandas: ok, so now we brainstorm, after that we meet here again?
(13:14:41) rares_: Rolandas: vorba volans, scripta manem
(13:15:56) rares_: Rolandas: ok, will you be on-line later?
(13:16:14) Rolandas: yes
(13:16:50) rares_: Rolandas: great, I'll put this IRC conversaion on the wiki and than I have some more work to do at the office
(13:17:01) rares_: Rolandas: I'll be on-line though